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Is a 25G drawing needle the right choice for drawing oral semaglutide at 1 mg/mL?

Asked 22 Mar 2024Modified 2.1 years agoViewed 26k times
15

The case in front of me: a 25G drawing needle · oral semaglutide · 1 mg/mL.

I would like the axes of comparison first and the recommendation second.

I have tried the first option and it works; the question is whether the second is better rather than merely different.

Is there a defensible reason to prefer one, or is this a coin flip?

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OF
askedorla_ferriter47k3822 Mar 2024
7Small correction: the units in the third paragraph should be micrograms, not milligrams. – thermal_mass 5 months ago
6Do you have a reference for the last claim? Not disputing it, just want to read it. – Dr_Priya_Raghunathan 3 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
82

Accepted answer

In practice, write the units at every step, because units errors are the failure mode that catches everyone eventually.

Dead space quantified: a fixed-needle insulin syringe holds roughly 3 to 5 µL in the hub and needle after the plunger bottoms out. A luer-lock syringe with a detachable needle holds 35 to 100 µL depending on the hub design. At 5 mg/mL that is 15 to 25 µg lost per draw on the insulin syringe and 175 to 500 µg on the luer-lock — which over ten draws is the difference between losing a rounding error and losing half a milligram.

The underlying point is that air bubbles at these volumes are a measurement problem rather than a safety one. A 2 mm bubble in a 0.3 mL syringe is roughly 4 µL, which at 10 units drawn is a four per cent error.

Published data on syringe dead space quantifies low-dead-space designs as retaining under 2 µL against 35 µL or more for conventional detachable-needle syringes.

Do the arithmetic twice, ideally with someone else doing it independently.

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RS
answered · acceptedrota_site55k3826 Jun 2024
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73

Specifically, this is one of those calculations where checking your work takes two minutes and prevents a very consequential error.

Breaking it down further: if a 10 mg vial has 96.5 per cent content, you have 9.65 mg of peptide. Divide that by 2.00 mL and your concentration is 4.825 mg/mL, not 5.00 mg/mL, which is a 3.5 per cent systematic error in every dose calculation.

The part that matters: on filtration: a 0.22 µm syringe filter will remove particulates and organisms, and it will also adsorb a fraction of your peptide onto the membrane — with a low-binding PVDF or PES membrane the loss is typically a few per cent.

The content assay results from major testing services show that nominal vial claim and measured content differ by one to ten per cent, making content a driver of dose error.

Write the arithmetic on the vial label. It costs nothing and removes the step where you reconstruct it from memory.

edited 15 Jun 2024 by per_haugen — added the method parameters

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PH
answeredper_haugen18k1815 Jun 2024
3This is the first explanation of that which has actually made sense to me. – Dr_Colm_Fitzhenry 6 months ago
4Note that the label instructions differ between agents on precisely this point. – pieter_maas 8 months ago
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35

The single most useful thing to do is write the arithmetic on the vial label, because you will reconstruct it from memory at an inconvenient moment if you do not.

The concentration you actually work with is label claim times content fraction divided by actual diluent volume, which is usually not the same as the nominal concentration because content is usually not 100 per cent and you rarely measure the diluent volume to 0.1 mL precision.

Specifically, do not use the same needle to pierce the stopper and to administer. The tip is blunted by the stopper, and the hub now contains a dose you are about to lose to dead space anyway.

The insulin-unit standard U-100 means 100 units per millilitre, so one unit is 0.01 mL — this is the conversion that trips up more people here than any other single piece of arithmetic.

I would flag the obvious failure mode: people get the concentration right, get the volume right, and then read the syringe against the wrong scale.

If in doubt, use more diluent and accept the shorter usable window.

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LC
answeredlyoph_cake95k25824 May 2024
28

Put another way, the common error is getting the concentration right but then misreading the syringe scale, which is why checking the barrel marking rather than your memory matters.

Worked example, because the general form is easier to trust once you have seen it once. Take a 10 mg vial and add 2 mL of diluent: the concentration is 10 ÷ 2 = 5 mg/mL. A 0.5 mg dose is 0.5 ÷ 5 = 0.1 mL. On a U-100 syringe, where 1 unit = 0.01 mL, that is 0.1 ÷ 0.01 = 10 units. Change the diluent to 1 mL and the same dose becomes 5 units — same dose, half the resolution.

The Arrhenius relationship for drawing kinetics means that cold solution takes noticeably longer to draw than room-temperature solution.

The limitation is that technique reduces risk, it does not remove it, and nothing you can do outside a controlled environment makes a non-sterile preparation sterile.

Do the arithmetic twice, ideally with someone else doing it independently.

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MM
answeredmg_per_ml12k174 Jun 2024
8Worth flagging that this changed in 2025, so older answers on the site are out of date. – h_pergande 9 months ago
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23

The arithmetic only stops being confusing once you work it through once and see that it is straightforward.

Room temperature before drawing is worth the ten minutes. Cold solution is more viscous, draws slower, and condensation on a cold barrel makes it harder to read the meniscus.

One qualification: if your arithmetic and someone else's disagree by a factor of ten, one of you has made a unit error, and writing out the units at every step is the diagnostic.

Write the arithmetic on the vial label. It costs nothing and removes the step where you reconstruct it from memory.

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DR
answeredDr_Priya_Raghunathan94k24831 Mar 2024
3This is the answer I was looking for three months ago. – mg_per_ml 34 days ago
2The arithmetic checks out. I ran the same numbers and got the same result. – lyoph_cake 9 months ago
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