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Which lipid measures actually move with 18% weight loss, and which barely budge?

Asked 30 Jul 2024Modified 20 months agoViewed 17k times
34

Down 18% of body weight over ten months. My triglycerides have collapsed from 3.1 to 1.1 mmol/L, which is the change everyone predicted. My LDL-C has gone from 3.4 to 3.2, which is essentially nothing, and I was expecting it to fall proportionally. HDL-C is up from 1.02 to 1.18. My Lp(a) was 168 nmol/L before and 171 nmol/L now, which I assume is measurement noise on an unchanged value.

So the question: is this pattern normal, or is my LDL-C behaving oddly? I had assumed "lose weight, lipids improve" applied uniformly, and instead I have one dramatic change, two modest ones and one that is inert. If the different measures respond differently I would like to understand which mechanism drives each, so I stop expecting the wrong things.

Secondary: given the above, which of these numbers is worth repeating, and which should I stop paying for? I have been running a full panel every eight weeks and I now suspect most of that spend was buying me noise.

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askedh_villanueva50k3830 Jul 2024
5Your pattern is textbook. The interesting part is why it is textbook. – Dr_Jonas_Halvorsen 4 months ago
4Eight-weekly triglycerides during active loss is almost pure noise — the within-person variation alone is around 20%. – coring_risk 2 months ago
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3 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
94

Accepted answer

Your pattern is exactly what the literature predicts and nothing about your LDL-C is odd. The measures respond differently because they are governed by different processes, only one of which is tightly coupled to adiposity.

MeasureTypical change at ~15–20% weight lossWhat drives itWorth repeating?
Triglycerides−20% to −35%, more if baseline was highHepatic VLDL secretion, which falls steeply with improved insulin sensitivity and reduced hepatic fatYes, but no more than 6-monthly — its own variability is ~20%
VLDL cholesterol / remnant cholesterol−20% to −25%Same mechanism; remnants are triglyceride-rich particlesYes, and it is free (non-HDL-C minus LDL-C)
Non-HDL-C−8% to −12%Sum of all atherogenic cholesterol; inherits part of the triglyceride fallYes. Cheapest genuinely useful number on the panel
ApoB−8% to −12%Total atherogenic particle countYes, once at baseline and once after stabilisation
LDL-C0% to −10%, and sometimes up during active lossLDL receptor activity and the balance of cholesterol synthesis against absorption — only weakly coupled to fat massYes, but expect little and do not chase it
HDL-C+3% to +10%, and the rise lags the triglyceride fall by monthsReciprocal to triglyceride-rich particle burden via CETP-mediated exchangeMarginal. It is a marker, not a target
Lp(a)Essentially 0The LPA gene. Largely fixed for lifeNo. Once, ever

Your numbers against that table: triglycerides −65%, which is at the strong end and expected because your baseline was high; LDL-C −6%, mid-range; HDL-C +16%, at the strong end; Lp(a) +1.8%, which is well inside the assay's own imprecision and means unchanged.

Why triglycerides move so much more than LDL-C

Because triglyceride concentration is largely a flux problem and LDL-C is largely a receptor problem.

Plasma triglycerides reflect the rate at which the liver secretes VLDL minus the rate at which lipoprotein lipase clears it. Hepatic VLDL output is driven by substrate supply and by insulin's failure to suppress it; visceral and hepatic fat feed both. Reduce hepatic fat and improve insulin sensitivity and both terms move in the favourable direction simultaneously. This is why the response is large, why it is roughly proportional to how high you started, and why it appears early.

LDL-C, by contrast, is set mainly by hepatic LDL receptor expression and by the balance between cholesterol synthesis and intestinal absorption. Adiposity influences that system only indirectly. Statins, ezetimibe and PCSK9 inhibitors act on it directly, which is why they move LDL-C by 20 to 60% while weight loss moves it by single digits. Expecting weight loss to behave like a statin is the error; they are not aimed at the same node.

The trial evidence, for calibration

The lipid changes in the semaglutide and tirzepatide obesity programmes are consistent with the table. STEP 1 reported reductions in triglycerides and VLDL cholesterol of roughly 20% or more against modest single-digit changes in LDL-C and total cholesterol [1]. SURMOUNT-1 reported a similar pattern with tirzepatide — large triglyceride and VLDL reductions, a small LDL-C reduction, and a modest HDL-C rise [2]. The ordering of effect sizes across measures is the reproducible finding; the exact percentages differ between trials because baselines and background lipid therapy differed.

The older diet-based literature says the same thing and adds a wrinkle that matters for your monitoring. A meta-analysis of weight-reduction studies found that lipid improvements were substantially larger when measured after weight had stabilised than during active weight loss, with total and LDL cholesterol changes attenuated or reversed in the actively-losing state [3]. That is a 1992 finding about diet, and it transfers directly: if you drew your follow-up panel during a fast phase of loss, your LDL-C is reading lower than its true potential improvement, or possibly higher than its eventual value.

What to stop paying for

  • Stop the eight-weekly panel. Triglycerides have a within-person biological variation around 20%, so on a value of 1.5 mmol/L the reference change value is roughly 60% — anything smaller than a change from 1.5 to 0.9 or up to 2.4 is not distinguishable from noise on a single pair of draws. Eight-weekly sampling generates a sawtooth you will over-interpret.
  • Stop repeating Lp(a). One measurement, filed for life.
  • Stop tracking HDL-C as a goal. It is a useful risk marker and a terrible target; interventions that raise it pharmacologically have repeatedly failed to reduce events.
  • Start recording non-HDL-C, which you already have on every panel you have paid for. Total cholesterol minus HDL-C. No extra assay, no fasting requirement, no Friedewald error.
  • Add ApoB once, now that your weight has been stable for a while, and compare it against your LDL-C for discordance.

A sensible schedule from here is one full panel plus ApoB at three months after weight stabilises, then annually, with a clinician looking at the whole picture rather than any single line.

edited 20 Aug 2024 by b_delacroix — corrected a unit error in the worked example

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answered · acceptedb_delacroix48k383 Aug 2024
2The "flux problem versus receptor problem" distinction is the cleanest one-line explanation of this I have seen. – Dr_Yusuf_Adeyemi 6 months ago
The 1992 meta-analysis being the source of the active-loss caveat is a nice reminder that this is not a new observation. – bufferline42 4 months ago
Non-HDL-C being free and already on the report is the point most people miss. – j_wierzbicki 9 months ago
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46

Expanding on Lp(a), because "essentially fixed" understates how unusual it is among the things on a lipid panel and there are two practical traps.

Why it does not move

Plasma Lp(a) concentration is determined predominantly by the LPA gene, with heritability estimates typically in the 70 to 90% range. The dominant determinant is the number of kringle IV type 2 repeats, which sets the size of the apolipoprotein(a) isoform and inversely correlates with plasma concentration, plus a set of common variants. Diet, weight, exercise and statins do not meaningfully change it. Statins may nudge it slightly upwards. Niacin lowers it and does not reduce events. The agents that lower it substantially are antisense oligonucleotides and small interfering RNAs currently in outcome trials, and until those report there is no established Lp(a)-lowering treatment with proven benefit.

So the correct mental model is not "a lipid to improve" but "a fixed risk multiplier to discover once". Its function is categorical: a high result moves you into a higher-risk stratum, which tightens the targets for the things you can change — chiefly ApoB and blood pressure — and flags first-degree relatives for testing, since it is inherited.

Trap one: the units

Lp(a) is reported either in mg/dL as a mass concentration or in nmol/L as a particle concentration, and there is no valid universal conversion between them. The reason is structural: mass depends on isoform size, which varies between people, so a fixed multiplier is wrong by a person-specific amount. The commonly used approximations of 2.0 to 2.5 nmol/L per mg/dL will place you on the wrong side of a threshold reasonably often.

Practically: your 168 nmol/L is a molar result and is comfortably above the widely quoted 125 nmol/L boundary for elevated risk. If a later result comes back as, say, 60 mg/dL, do not multiply it and compare — ask which assay was run, and if you need to compare, get the same assay repeated.

Trap two: reading the change as real

Your 168 to 171 nmol/L is a 1.8% difference. Analytical imprecision for Lp(a) immunoassays is in the 4 to 8% range, and there is modest within-person biological variation on top, so the reference change value is on the order of 20 to 30%. Your two results are the same result. This matters because people who see a small rise conclude something is wrong and repeat the test annually forever, and people who see a small fall conclude their intervention worked.

The one situation where a genuinely changed Lp(a) is worth knowing: it rises with substantial renal impairment, particularly nephrotic-range proteinuria, and in acute inflammatory states, and it falls with severe hepatic dysfunction and in hyperthyroidism. If a repeat comes back 60% different, look for one of those rather than assuming assay failure.

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answeredamara_nwachukwu41k3820 Nov 2024
5The no-valid-conversion point should be printed on every Lp(a) report and is not. – j_wierzbicki 10 months ago
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21

One addition on the HDL-C rise, since it is the measure most likely to be misread as a success.

HDL-C is largely reciprocal to triglyceride-rich lipoprotein burden. When VLDL and remnant particles are abundant, cholesteryl ester transfer protein shuttles cholesteryl ester out of HDL in exchange for triglyceride; the triglyceride-enriched HDL is then remodelled and cleared faster, so HDL-C falls. Reduce the triglyceride-rich pool and that drain closes, and HDL-C rises passively. This is why the HDL-C rise lags the triglyceride fall by months and why its magnitude is roughly predictable from the triglyceride change.

Which means your +16% HDL-C is not an independent finding. It is the same event as your −65% triglycerides, observed from the other side. Counting both as improvements double-counts one physiological change.

The reason this matters beyond bookkeeping: HDL-C has repeatedly failed as a treatment target. Pharmacological HDL-C raising, most notably with CETP inhibition, has produced large increases in HDL-C without corresponding event reduction, and Mendelian randomisation studies have generally found no causal relationship between genetically determined HDL-C and coronary disease, in sharp contrast to the findings for ApoB-containing lipoproteins [1].

The practical reading: HDL-C is a barometer, useful for what it tells you about the triglyceride-rich pool and about insulin sensitivity, and not something to optimise. A rise alongside a triglyceride fall is confirmatory. A rise in isolation, with unchanged triglycerides, is more likely to be alcohol than progress.

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answeredn_takahashi36k389 Nov 2024

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