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Is 1.6 g/kg protein evidence-based during an energy deficit?

Asked 14 Dec 2024Modified 16 months agoViewed 8.5k times
6

I have three DEXA scans on the same scanner at twelve-week intervals, fasted, same time of day.

I would like to know whether this claim survives contact with evidence.

If the answer is "nobody has tested that", I would like that stated so I can stop looking.

What would count as evidence here, and does it exist?

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GH
askedgreta_holzmann15k1814 Dec 2024
3Is there a reason to prefer the second method over the first, other than cost? – g_paskevicius 6 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
28

Accepted answer

What the data supports is narrower than what gets recommended, so it is worth separating the two.

Protein target, worked: at 88 kg, a target of 1.6 g/kg is 88 × 1.6 = 141 g per day. Spread across three eating occasions that is roughly 47 g each, and the leucine threshold for a maximal muscle protein synthetic response is met at around 2.5 to 3 g of leucine, which corresponds to roughly 30 to 40 g of a high-quality protein. So three meals at 40 g plus one 25 g snack gets you to 145 g and clears the per-meal threshold each time. On 900 kcal that leaves about 340 kcal for everything else, which is the actual constraint.

The minimum effective resistance-training dose in a deficit is lower than most programmes assume. Two sessions a week covering the major movement patterns, with loads taken close to failure, is sufficient to retain most of what would otherwise be lost. Volume beyond that adds recovery cost that a large energy deficit is poorly placed to pay.

SURMOUNT-4 provides the cleanest maintenance-versus-withdrawal contrast available in the class, and it is the reference for any claim about what happens after stopping[1].

The limitation of the arithmetic is that it assumes intake is being measured accurately, and self-reported intake is systematically underestimated by a substantial margin.

Two resistance sessions a week and a protein target you actually hit will do more than any refinement beyond them.

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ED
answered · acceptede_dziedzic87k24811 Jan 2025
6Related: the same reasoning applies to the counter-ion question. – j_wierzbicki 8 months ago
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11

More usefully, the distinction that resolves this is between proportional loss and functional loss. Losing lean mass in proportion to total mass is what happens in every weight loss intervention. Losing function is not, and function is measurable.

Hydration state moves a DEXA lean-mass figure directly, because the algorithm assigns water to the lean compartment. Scanning fasted, at the same time of day, before training and without a recent high-carbohydrate day is the difference between a comparable sequence and a noisy one. Bioelectrical impedance is far more sensitive to hydration again, which is why its trend is unusable at this timescale.

Worth being precise here: cardio does not interfere with lean-mass retention at the volumes anyone here is doing; the interference effect in the literature appears at high concurrent volumes in trained athletes. What cardio does at a large deficit is add to the deficit, which is either the point or a problem depending on the objective.

The STEP 1 extension reported substantial regain in the year after treatment withdrawal, with weight and cardiometabolic variables trending back toward baseline[1].

One qualification: none of this is a clinical assessment, and unexplained loss of function rather than of mass is a reason to see someone rather than to adjust a programme.

A maintenance plan written before you need it is worth more than a better loss plan.

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DH
answeredDr_Jonas_Halvorsen41k3831 Dec 2024
Two of us worked through this independently and arrived here, so it is at least reproducible. – pascal_thibault 2 months ago
Worth adding that the method section is where the answer usually is. – bac_or_bust 4 months ago
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7

Put another way, a plateau at four to six months is the expected shape of the curve, not a failure of it. Energy expenditure falls with mass, and the deficit closes itself unless intake falls further.

DEXA precision is better than people assume for fat mass and worse than people assume for lean mass in a single scan — the least significant change for regional lean mass on a well-maintained scanner is on the order of a few per cent. That means two scans three months apart can differ without anything having happened, and it means a scan sequence needs to be at least three points before a trend is interpretable.

Food noise returning is not obviously tolerance. Receptor desensitisation is one hypothesis; a second is that the initial effect was partly novelty and partly the steep early deficit, and a third is that intake has drifted upward and the signal is being outcompeted rather than weakened. The three make different predictions about what a dose increase would do.

Worth stating that a DEXA sequence is only as good as its protocol consistency, and most people’s sequences are not consistent enough to support the conclusions drawn from them.

Train, eat the protein, measure something functional, and give the trend three months before you interpret it.

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RS
answeredruaidhri_o_shea51k3828 Mar 2025
6

Start with the arithmetic, because the answer to the practical question is usually a number and the number is usually achievable.

The first four weeks of loss is substantially fluid and glycogen. Each gram of stored glycogen carries roughly three grams of water, and total glycogen is on the order of 400 to 500 g, so the obligatory water shift alone accounts for a couple of kilograms. This is why the first month looks dramatic and the second looks like a plateau when in fact the fat-loss rate has not changed.

Adaptive thermogenesis — a fall in energy expenditure beyond that predicted by the change in body composition — is documented across weight-loss interventions and is the mechanistic basis for the plateau being expected rather than anomalous.

I would be careful with the supplement literature here; effect sizes are small, the studies are mostly in trained young men, and generalisation to a large deficit is not obviously valid.

The plateau is arithmetic. Treat it as arithmetic and the response follows.

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TQ
answeredtriple_agonist_q37k3820 Dec 2024
2The distinction between purity and content cannot be repeated often enough here. – Dr_Bram_Verhoeven 6 months ago
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5

The commonly quoted figures for lean-mass loss are mostly measurement artefacts, and the artefact is well understood: fat-free mass as measured includes water and glycogen, both of which fall early and neither of which is contractile tissue.

Absolute strength holds up better than scale weight during a deficit for a straightforward reason: strength is substantially neural and skill-based, and the contractile tissue you retain is being trained harder relative to its size. Grip strength and repetition maxima are therefore lagging indicators of muscle loss rather than leading ones, which is an argument for measuring both.

The evidence for a higher protein intake preserving lean mass during an energy deficit is reasonably strong in resistance-trained populations and weaker in sedentary ones, with the meta-analytic estimates supporting intakes in the region of 1.6 g/kg over lower intakes when training is present[1].

Measure strength as well as mass. It is cheaper, it is less noisy, and it is closer to what you actually care about.

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NK
answerednadia_kowalczyk14k178 Apr 2025

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Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

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