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How many times can I pierce a stopper with a 30G needle before coring?

Asked 15 Apr 2024Modified 2.1 years agoViewed 46k times
18

I have photographs before and after reconstitution if the visual detail matters.

I have done this once and I suspect I got away with it rather than got it right.

For context: I keep records of every batch, every lot number and every result, so an answer that requires me to track something is fine.

What is the correct sequence, and where is the step that people usually skip?

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CR
askedcoring_risk27k2715 Apr 2024
6Same situation here, so I will follow this one. – b_delacroix 3 months ago
5What syringe are you using? The answer is different for a 0.3 mL barrel and a 1 mL one. – tandem_gradient 43 days ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
145

Accepted answer

There is no count, and 30G is why: coring is a single event, not an accumulation. A needle cores when its bevel punches a full disc of rubber instead of parting it, and that either happens on a given puncture or does not. At 30G the bore is narrow enough that any disc it cuts is small and easy to miss under inspection. Technique moves the odds far more than the count does: enter at an angle, rotate the bevel, then bring it upright — that parts the septum rather than punching it. Inspect against a dark background before every draw, because the number of punctures a stopper survives is a property of that stopper and this is the only way to find it out.

Answering this needs to know the viscosity of what is being drawn, since a viscous solution through a fine needle is slow enough to encourage bad technique.

Drawing a viscous or foamy solution through a fine needle takes long enough that people rush the plunger, which causes more foaming. Using a wider drawing needle is the fix.

A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals, which is why fine-gauge repeated entry is tolerable and coarse-gauge repeated entry is not.

Butyl rubber closures are specified for resealing after piercing up to a stated gauge, which is the basis for the fine-gauge repeated-entry practice.

Gauge numbers run backwards. Higher number, thinner needle.

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HV
answered · acceptedh_villanueva70k4814 May 2024
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57

For a 4 mm pen-style needle the gauge options are narrow and the choice is nearly made for you.

Typical outer diameters: 21G is about 0.82 mm, 23G about 0.64 mm, 25G about 0.51 mm, 29G about 0.34 mm and 31G about 0.26 mm. The gauge number and the diameter move in opposite directions.

In practice, fixed-needle insulin syringes are supplied in 29G to 31G and cannot be swapped for drawing, which is the trade-off against their much lower dead space.

The Hagen–Poiseuille relation gives flow proportional to the fourth power of radius, which is the quantitative basis for every gauge recommendation here.

Length affects comfort more than gauge does at these volumes.

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HP
answeredh_pergande71k15825 May 2024
42

Start with the fact that gauge numbers run backwards — a higher number is a thinner needle — which is the source of half the confusion in this tag.

Very fine needles are more prone to bending and to blocking with any particulate, which is a practical argument for inspecting the solution before drawing.

Stopper coring — punching a disc of rubber into the solution — is a large-bore phenomenon. An 18G or 21G needle inserted straight and fast is the classic way to do it; inserting at a slight angle with the bevel up reduces the risk.

Nothing here is medical advice.

Angle the bevel and insert gently to avoid coring the stopper.

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IB
answeredines_brandt113k25722 Apr 2024
7I have seen exactly this failure mode twice and both times it was the diluent volume. – ilaria_bertone 4 months ago
6Adding a vote because this deserves more of them. – grainne_ahearn 3 months ago
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33

This is a straightforward answer that people over-complicate because the numbering is counter-intuitive.

Flow through a needle scales with the fourth power of the internal radius under the Hagen–Poiseuille relation. Halving the radius reduces flow sixteen-fold at the same pressure, which is why a 31G needle draws so much more slowly than a 21G.

Needle gauge to outer diameter correspondence is standardised and published; the inverse relationship between gauge number and diameter is the reason for the counter-intuitive labelling.

Higher gauge is not automatically better; it is thinner, which has costs as well as benefits.

Flow goes as the fourth power of radius. That is why the difference feels so large.

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LB
answeredlaminar_bench69k573 May 2024
Minor: the filter membrane chemistry matters as much as the pore size for adsorption. – fib4_reader 8 months ago
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27

Coring the stopper with a large-bore needle is the risk at the drawing end, and it is real.

For injecting, 29G to 31G is the usual range and the difference in perceived discomfort between them is small. Needle length matters more than gauge for comfort at these volumes.

If a solution will not draw through a 25G needle, the problem is the solution rather than the needle.

Big to draw, small to inject, never the same one twice.

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LS
answeredlow_dead_space37k3728 Jun 2024
2Same experience here, different supplier. – e_dziedzic 9 months ago
Confirming: I did the wrong thing here once and got exactly the predicted result. – Dr_Jonas_Halvorsen 7 months ago
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