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What did the placebo arm of SELECT report for injection-site erythema?

Asked 25 May 2024Modified 23 months agoViewed 32k times
27

What I have: SELECT · injection-site erythema.

I would like to know the limits of what can be inferred from this.

What I am trying to avoid is over-reading a single result, which I have done before.

What can I legitimately conclude from this figure?

clinical-trials
clinical-trials

Reading the primary literature properly: estimands, intention-to-treat versus per-protocol, confidence intervals, absolute versus relative…

745 questions
injection-site-reaction
injection-site-reaction

Local reactions: erythema, induration, pruritus and nodules. Their relationship to injection depth, diluent composition, benzyl alcohol…

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SL
askedsecond_lot9.4k1425 May 2024
7Worth saying whether you want relative or absolute risk. They read very differently. – t_oyelaran 4 months ago
6Same question, and the two papers I found disagree, which is why I am watching. – void_volume 2 months ago
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4 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
44

Accepted answer

In practice, the trial answers a narrower question than the headline suggests, and the narrowing is where the useful information is.

Non-inferiority and superiority designs are not interchangeable. A non-inferiority result says the new agent is not meaningfully worse against a pre-specified margin — it does not say it is as good, and it certainly does not say it is better.

It helps to be literal here: duration decides what can be seen. A 68-week trial can measure weight and glycaemia; it cannot measure anything whose event rate is one per cent per year without enrolling tens of thousands.

Where a result is quoted from a conference abstract rather than a peer-reviewed publication, the numbers routinely move between the two. It is worth checking which one you are reading.

The short version: check the endpoint, check the comparator, check who was excluded, then look at the number.

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DV
answered · acceptedDr_Bram_Verhoeven84k24828 Jul 2024
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40

The short version: the effect is real, the magnitude depends on the population, and the population is usually the part that gets dropped when a result is quoted second-hand.

Placebo arms in this class are not nothing. Lifestyle-intervention placebo arms in the major obesity trials commonly lose two to three per cent of body weight, so an active-arm figure quoted without its comparator overstates the drug effect by roughly that much.

More usefully, intention-to-treat and per-protocol analyses answer different questions. ITT asks what happens if you offer the treatment; per-protocol asks what happens if it is taken as directed. The gap between the two is a measure of how tolerable the protocol was.

Meta-analyses in this area are dominated by whichever trial contributed the most participants, so read the forest plot rather than the summary estimate.

When two sources disagree, the answer is almost always in the methods section of the one you have not read.

edited 17 Aug 2024 by mira_sundqvist — added a caveat about sampling

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MS
answeredmira_sundqvist7.1k152 Aug 2024
The placebo-arm figure is the part everyone omits. – Dr_Jonas_Halvorsen 8 months ago
Which population was that figure from? It moves a lot between the trials. – e_dziedzic 9 months ago
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18

Look at the discontinuation rate alongside the efficacy figure. A large effect in the two thirds who stayed is a different result from a large effect in everyone.

Open-label extensions are not the same evidence as the randomised phase. Once everyone knows what they are taking, the reported outcomes acquire a bias that no analysis fully removes.

The underlying point is that confidence intervals matter more than point estimates when two trials disagree. Two studies reporting fifteen and twenty per cent whose intervals overlap heavily have not disagreed about anything.

The cardiovascular outcome programme in this class runs to several large randomised trials — LEADER for liraglutide, SUSTAIN-6 and SELECT for semaglutide, REWIND for dulaglutide — and they are the reason the class is discussed as more than a weight intervention.

I am not a clinician and this is not medical advice; it is a reading of a published protocol.

Quote the interval alongside the estimate and half the disagreements on this site would not start.

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RS
answeredrota_site36k2711 Jul 2024
14

Start with what the trial was powered for. Everything else in the publication is secondary, exploratory, or a subgroup, and those three words mean three different things.

A composite endpoint is only as informative as its least serious component. Where a cardiovascular composite combines death, infarction and stroke, ask which component moved, because they are not interchangeable outcomes.

Registry entries at ClinicalTrials.gov carry the pre-specified primary endpoint with a timestamp, which is the cheapest available check on whether an endpoint was changed after the data were seen.

One qualification: absence of a signal in a trial of this size is not evidence of absence for a rare event. It is evidence that the event is rarer than the trial could detect.

If a claim cannot be traced to a named trial with a named endpoint, treat it as a claim rather than as evidence.

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FC
answeredforty_two_c66k5822 Jul 2024
Thank you — this is the answer I was looking for. – Dr_Wren_Halliday 4 months ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.