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Does AST tell me anything about hepatic fat on semaglutide?

Asked 25 Apr 2025Modified 11 months agoViewed 13k times
13

The specifics, since they change the answer: AST · semaglutide.

I would like the mechanism, because I want to be able to reason about the cases nobody has written about.

I have tried to reason it out from first principles and got to two contradictory conclusions.

What is actually going on here, physically?

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askedrae_oyelowo21k3825 Apr 2025
Adding for future readers: the certificate should carry the lot number, not just a batch code. – Dr_Fatima_Belkacem 4 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
44

Accepted answer

Put another way, a single laboratory value is a point on a noisy curve. What you want is a trend across at least three draws under comparable conditions, and "comparable" is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

The rodent thyroid C-cell findings that generated the labelled warning appear to be species-specific: rodent C-cells express GLP-1 receptors at high density, human C-cells at very low density, and human calcitonin data across large trial populations has not reproduced the signal. A family history of medullary thyroid carcinoma or MEN2 is nonetheless a genuine contraindication rather than a theoretical one.

Creatinine is a muscle-derived metabolite, so a substantial loss of lean mass lowers serum creatinine and mathematically raises estimated GFR without anything happening to the kidney. If you have lost twenty kilograms, your creatinine-based eGFR is flattering you. Cystatin C is not muscle-dependent and is the measure to use when the two disagree.

SUSTAIN 6 was the original cardiovascular outcomes trial for semaglutide in type 2 diabetes and is the reference point for the class effect that SELECT later extended to a non-diabetic population[1].

The limitation is that surrogate endpoints and hard endpoints have come apart before in metabolic medicine, so a favourable biomarker is a reason for optimism rather than a conclusion.

None of this replaces a clinician who can see the whole picture, and the whole picture is usually where the answer is.

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answered · acceptednils_karlberg13k1712 Aug 2025
The timing signature is the useful part. Everything else is confounded. – tandem_gradient 6 months ago
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53

The relevant detail is that start with the population. The inclusion criteria of the trial determine what its result can be extrapolated to, and the extrapolation people want is usually to a population the trial excluded.

The early fall in estimated glomerular filtration rate on treatment is haemodynamic rather than structural. Reduced intraglomerular pressure lowers the filtration rate acutely and preserves the glomerulus chronically — the same pattern seen with renin-angiotensin blockade and with SGLT2 inhibition. A dip of a few millilitres per minute in the first weeks, followed by a shallower long-term slope, is the desired trajectory, not a warning sign.

Liver enzymes are a poor surrogate for hepatic histology in both directions: substantial steatohepatitis with normal transaminases is common, and modest enzyme elevation with minimal fibrosis is common. If the question is fibrosis, the answer comes from a non-invasive score such as FIB-4 or a stiffness measurement, not from ALT.

SURMOUNT-1 reported mean weight reductions of approximately 15, 19 and 21 per cent at tirzepatide 5, 10 and 15 mg respectively at 72 weeks[1].

Convert everything to an absolute effect before you compare two interventions. Relative effects are not comparable across different baseline risks.

edited 17 May 2025 by claudia_ferrante — corrected a unit error in the worked example

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CF
answeredclaudia_ferrante46k386 May 2025
36

Worth being precise here: read the estimand before the effect size. Almost every apparent contradiction between two published figures from the same trial resolves once you notice that one is a trial-product estimand and the other is a treatment-policy estimand.

Estimated average glucose from HbA1c: eAG in mg/dL = 28.7 × A1c − 46.7, or in mmol/L, 1.59 × A1c − 2.59. An A1c of 6.5 per cent is therefore about 140 mg/dL or 7.8 mmol/L. The relationship is a population regression, so an individual can sit well off the line.

Stated carefully, hbA1c is a weighted average, not a flat one: roughly half the signal comes from the most recent month. That is why a value drawn six weeks after a change already reflects most of the effect, and why a value drawn during rapid haematological turnover reflects something other than glycaemia.

Read the confidence interval, read the estimand, and compute the absolute effect yourself. It takes two minutes and it changes how the result feels.

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EH
answeredeighty_six_hours16k2723 Aug 2025
21

The hazard ratio is the relative effect. What changes decisions is the absolute effect, and converting between them requires the event rate in the control arm, which is usually in the same table and rarely in the abstract.

ApoB and LDL-C disagree because they measure different things: LDL-C is the cholesterol mass carried in the LDL fraction, ApoB is a count of atherogenic particles. Small dense particles carry less cholesterol each, so a person with many small particles has a concordantly higher ApoB than their LDL-C suggests. When they disagree, ApoB is the better risk marker.

If the trend across three draws is flat, the difference between draws one and two was noise. Most of what people react to is noise.

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DV
answeredDr_Bram_Verhoeven85k2481 Aug 2025
5Does this hold at lower concentrations, or does adsorption dominate? – petra_hovland 10 months ago
6Worth flagging that this changed in 2025, so older answers on the site are out of date. – RP_C18 43 days ago
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16

This is a question about what the trial was designed to answer, and the honest response is that it was not designed to answer this.

A fasting lipid panel drawn during rapid weight loss reads oddly for a mechanical reason: mobilised adipose tissue delivers free fatty acids to the liver, and hepatic triglyceride export rises. Triglycerides can transiently increase while the person is doing exactly the right thing. Draw the panel when weight has been stable for a few weeks if you want an interpretable number.

The papers are readable. Read the paper rather than the summary of the paper, especially where the summary is enthusiastic.

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TG
answeredtandem_gradient85k24820 Jun 2025
Good answer, but the confidence interval in the cited trial is wider than implied. – bac_or_bust 2 months ago
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