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Is a 31G needle the right choice for drawing survodutide at 8 mg/mL?

Asked 28 Nov 2024Modified 16 months agoViewed 46k times
41

The particulars: a 31G needle · survodutide · 8 mg/mL.

I am trying to choose between two options that are usually discussed as though only one exists.

I am not optimising for price, but I am not indifferent to it either.

What does each option buy me, and what does it cost me?

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DW
askedDr_Elias_Weiss25k2728 Nov 2024

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
28

Accepted answer

At 8 mg/mL a 1 mg dose is 0.125 mL — 12.5 units on a U-100 barrel — and no needle gauge changes that number. Gauge changes three other things: how long the draw takes, how much stays behind in the hub, and how much rubber you core out of the stopper. On the 31G scale a larger number is a finer needle, so a 31G needle is fine enough that a viscous solution draws slowly and a hurried draw pulls bubbles. If you are drawing 12.5 units at a time, the dead space matters more than the bore: a fixed-needle barrel loses microlitres, a luer hub loses tens of them, and at 8 mg/mL each microlitre is 8 µg.

Answer first: use the largest bore you tolerate for drawing and the smallest for injecting, because the two operations have opposite requirements.

Very fine needles are more prone to bending and to blocking with any particulate, which is a practical argument for inspecting the solution before drawing.

Concentration and unit conversion at a glance

VialDiluentConcentration0.25 mg0.5 mg1 mg2.5 mg
5 mg1 mL5 mg/mL5 u10 u20 u50 u
5 mg2 mL2.5 mg/mL10 u20 u40 u100 u
10 mg1 mL10 mg/mL2.5 u5 u10 u25 u
10 mg2 mL5 mg/mL5 u10 u20 u50 u
10 mg3 mL3.33 mg/mL7.5 u15 u30 u75 u

Units are U-100 insulin units, where 1 unit = 0.01 mL. Divide dose by concentration for millilitres, then multiply by 100.

Typical outer diameters: 21G is about 0.82 mm, 23G about 0.64 mm, 25G about 0.51 mm, 29G about 0.34 mm and 31G about 0.26 mm. The gauge number and the diameter move in opposite directions.

Coring risk as a function of needle gauge and insertion technique is documented in pharmacy compounding guidance.

Big to draw, small to inject, never the same one twice.

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TM
answered · acceptedthermal_mass13k1723 Mar 2025
3Thank you — the worked example is what makes this usable. – plate_count_9k 6 months ago
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11

The short version: 21G to 23G to draw, 29G to 31G to inject, and never the same needle for both.

Stopper coring — punching a disc of rubber into the solution — is a large-bore phenomenon. An 18G or 21G needle inserted straight and fast is the classic way to do it; inserting at a slight angle with the bevel up reduces the risk.

The underlying point is that drawing a viscous or foamy solution through a fine needle takes long enough that people rush the plunger, which causes more foaming. Using a wider drawing needle is the fix.

Flow goes as the fourth power of radius. That is why the difference feels so large.

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RS
answeredrota_site36k2712 Mar 2025
Would this be different for a peptide that foams? Mine does and I have never known why. – nils_karlberg 8 months ago
Adding that a fixed-needle syringe loses about a tenth of what a luer one does. – Dr_Bram_Verhoeven 6 months ago
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8

Answering this needs to know the viscosity of what is being drawn, since a viscous solution through a fine needle is slow enough to encourage bad technique.

For injecting, 29G to 31G is the usual range and the difference in perceived discomfort between them is small. Needle length matters more than gauge for comfort at these volumes.

Fixed-needle insulin syringes are supplied in 29G to 31G and cannot be swapped for drawing, which is the trade-off against their much lower dead space.

The caveat is that no gauge choice makes a non-sterile preparation safe, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Length affects comfort more than gauge does at these volumes.

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MH
answeredm_haraldsen21k277 Feb 2025
4I have added the label-the-vial suggestion to my own notes. Obvious in hindsight. – Dr_Bram_Verhoeven 7 months ago
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6

In practice, coring the stopper with a large-bore needle is the risk at the drawing end, and it is real.

Flow through a needle scales with the fourth power of the internal radius under the Hagen–Poiseuille relation. Halving the radius reduces flow sixteen-fold at the same pressure, which is why a 31G needle draws so much more slowly than a 21G.

Nothing here is medical advice.

Gauge numbers run backwards. Higher number, thinner needle.

edited 15 Mar 2025 by Dr_Bram_Verhoeven — added the citation requested in comments

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DV
answeredDr_Bram_Verhoeven84k24818 Feb 2025
6

The honest answer is that injection gauge is a comfort decision and drawing gauge is a stopper-coring decision.

A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals, which is why fine-gauge repeated entry is tolerable and coarse-gauge repeated entry is not.

Butyl rubber closures are specified for resealing after piercing up to a stated gauge, which is the basis for the fine-gauge repeated-entry practice.

Higher gauge is not automatically better; it is thinner, which has costs as well as benefits.

Angle the bevel and insert gently to avoid coring the stopper.

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SC
answeredstopper_core28k1271 Mar 2025

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.