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What did the placebo arm of SOUL report for constipation?

Asked 28 Aug 2024Modified 18 months agoViewed 40k times
17

What I have: SOUL · constipation.

I want to understand what this actually establishes, as opposed to what it is being used to imply.

My concern is that I am being invited to draw a conclusion the data does not support.

What does this actually establish, and what does it not?

clinical-trials
clinical-trials

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SL
askedsecond_lot9.4k1428 Aug 2024

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
39

Accepted answer

Start with what the trial was powered for. Everything else in the publication is secondary, exploratory, or a subgroup, and those three words mean three different things.

Intention-to-treat and per-protocol analyses answer different questions. ITT asks what happens if you offer the treatment; per-protocol asks what happens if it is taken as directed. The gap between the two is a measure of how tolerable the protocol was.

In practice, trial populations are selected. Exclusion criteria in this class routinely remove people with significant renal impairment, prior pancreatitis and unstable psychiatric illness, which is exactly the population the results are then quoted for.

The cardiovascular outcome programme in this class runs to several large randomised trials — LEADER for liraglutide, SUSTAIN-6 and SELECT for semaglutide, REWIND for dulaglutide — and they are the reason the class is discussed as more than a weight intervention.

Read the protocol and the statistical analysis plan if the result matters to you. Both are usually published alongside.

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FU
answered · acceptedforty_units16k1715 Sept 2024
2The number needed to treat is the framing that finally made this concrete for me. – tobias_maartens 7 months ago
3Same experience here, different supplier. – sasha_ferreira 8 months ago
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31

This is answerable from the published record, but only if you take the placebo arm seriously rather than reading the active arm alone.

Placebo arms in this class are not nothing. Lifestyle-intervention placebo arms in the major obesity trials commonly lose two to three per cent of body weight, so an active-arm figure quoted without its comparator overstates the drug effect by roughly that much.

The underlying point is that duration decides what can be seen. A 68-week trial can measure weight and glycaemia; it cannot measure anything whose event rate is one per cent per year without enrolling tens of thousands.

Be careful about generalising from a trial population to yourself. The exclusion criteria are usually the most informative page in the supplement.

Quote the interval alongside the estimate and half the disagreements on this site would not start.

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DF
answeredDr_Colm_Fitzhenry69k24726 Sept 2024
7Thank you — this is the answer I was looking for. – Dr_Yusuf_Adeyemi 9 months ago
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14

A trial establishes what happened to a defined group under a defined protocol. Extending it beyond that group is inference, and inference is allowed as long as it is labelled.

Confidence intervals matter more than point estimates when two trials disagree. Two studies reporting fifteen and twenty per cent whose intervals overlap heavily have not disagreed about anything.

A composite endpoint is only as informative as its least serious component. Where a cardiovascular composite combines death, infarction and stroke, ask which component moved, because they are not interchangeable outcomes.

Meta-analyses in this area are dominated by whichever trial contributed the most participants, so read the forest plot rather than the summary estimate.

I am not a clinician and this is not medical advice; it is a reading of a published protocol.

If a claim cannot be traced to a named trial with a named endpoint, treat it as a claim rather than as evidence.

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DF
answeredDr_Colm_Fitzhenry69k2474 Sept 2024
2This matches what I was told by a clinician, for whatever that is worth. – Dr_Fatima_Belkacem 7 months ago
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12

Look at the discontinuation rate alongside the efficacy figure. A large effect in the two thirds who stayed is a different result from a large effect in everyone.

Open-label extensions are not the same evidence as the randomised phase. Once everyone knows what they are taking, the reported outcomes acquire a bias that no analysis fully removes.

The caveat is that trial evidence is about licensed product administered under supervision. None of it transfers automatically to research-grade material of unverified content.

When two sources disagree, the answer is almost always in the methods section of the one you have not read.

edited 18 Jan 2025 by t_oyelaran — expanded the table to cover the lower concentration

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TO
answeredt_oyelaran79k4822 Dec 2024
8

The honest answer here is that the published evidence supports part of the claim and is silent on the rest, and it is worth being precise about which part is which.

Non-inferiority and superiority designs are not interchangeable. A non-inferiority result says the new agent is not meaningfully worse against a pre-specified margin — it does not say it is as good, and it certainly does not say it is better.

Registry entries at ClinicalTrials.gov carry the pre-specified primary endpoint with a timestamp, which is the cheapest available check on whether an endpoint was changed after the data were seen.

The short version: check the endpoint, check the comparator, check who was excluded, then look at the number.

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AB
answeredassay_blank45k3810 Nov 2024
2Do you have a reference for the last claim? Not disputing it, just want to read it. – Dr_Elias_Weiss 3 months ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.