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Does TSH tell me anything about hepatic fat on retatrutide?

Asked 31 Mar 2024Modified 23 months agoViewed 32k times
24

The case in front of me: TSH · retatrutide.

I can predict the outcome but I cannot explain it, which means I will get the next case wrong.

I would like to know how confident the field actually is about this.

So what is the mechanism, and how well established is it?

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ZM
askedzainab_mustafa21k2731 Mar 2024

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
41

Accepted answer

Before attributing anything to a compound, account for alcohol, muscle injury from new training, and any over-the-counter product being taken alongside.

Alanine aminotransferase is relatively liver-specific; aspartate aminotransferase is also present in muscle, heart and red cells. A raised AST with a normal ALT after heavy resistance training is usually muscle, and creatine kinase settles the question.

Stated carefully, very rapid weight loss can transiently worsen liver biochemistry, which is one of several arguments against pursuing the steepest possible trajectory.

Hy's law and its variants are the standard framework for identifying drug-induced liver injury in trials and are why bilirubin is measured alongside transaminases rather than instead.

The caveat is direct: rising liver enzymes with jaundice, dark urine or right-upper-quadrant pain is a same-day clinical problem, not a forum question.

Isolated mild elevation is common and usually improves with weight loss.

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GA
answered · acceptedgrainne_ahearn50k3822 Apr 2024
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41

The relevant caution is that a rapid rise, particularly with bilirubin, is a different event from a stable mild elevation and needs handling differently.

Gamma-glutamyl transferase is sensitive and unspecific: it rises with alcohol, with several medications and with fatty liver, and an isolated elevation rarely changes anything on its own.

The underlying point is that an isolated result three weeks after starting anything is difficult to interpret. A baseline taken before starting makes the same result trivially interpretable, which is the argument for baselines.

Read the pattern before the magnitude, and the magnitude in multiples of the upper limit.

edited 17 Aug 2024 by tare_weight — tightened the wording; no substantive change

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TW
answeredtare_weight60k14829 Jul 2024
8Delta checks against your own previous value are the part I had not thought about, and it reframes the whole panel. – amara_nwachukwu 2 months ago
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29

Answer first: mild transaminase elevation is common in this population before any drug is involved, and the usual cause is hepatic steatosis rather than anything acute.

Reference upper limits around forty units per litre for ALT are conventional rather than physiological; several groups have argued for limits closer to thirty for men and twenty-five for women.

Hy's law describes the combination that matters: transaminases above three times the upper limit together with bilirubin above twice the upper limit and no cholestatic explanation. That combination is a signal; isolated mild transaminase elevation is not.

Get a baseline before you start anything, because it converts an uninterpretable result into an interpretable one for the cost of one blood draw.

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TH
answeredtyndall_haze38k3818 Jul 2024
2Small correction: eGFR is an estimate derived from creatinine, not a measurement, and the equation used matters. – tri_gly_ala 7 months ago
Does this hold for a non-fasting draw, or does the triglyceride figure make that a different conversation? – mz_4113 5 months ago
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19

Reference intervals for alanine aminotransferase differ between laboratories and have been revised downward over time, so the same value can be normal on one report and elevated on another.

Weight loss of ten per cent or more typically reduces transaminases substantially in people whose elevation was driven by hepatic fat, which is the majority of mild elevations in this population.

Population data show a substantial fraction of adults with mild transaminase elevation attributable to hepatic steatosis, which sets the base rate against which any new finding should be read.

Attributing an enzyme change to a compound requires a baseline, and most people asking have not got one.

Transaminases plus bilirubin plus alkaline phosphatase, or you have not measured enough to conclude anything.

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ZA
answeredzeynep_arslan16k2611 Apr 2024
17

The honest answer is that mild elevation is very common, that it usually improves with weight loss, and that the exceptions are the reason anyone checks.

Creatine kinase, alkaline phosphatase and bilirubin together tell you which compartment the abnormality is in, and ordering the transaminases alone throws that information away.

Research-use material of unknown content is an unquantifiable variable in any such attribution.

New training, alcohol and over-the-counter products first. Then the interesting hypotheses.

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PC
answeredpk_curve30k2815 Jun 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.