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How much of an AHI improvement is neck-circumference change?

Asked 22 Dec 2024Modified 15 months agoViewed 41k times
21

I am reading the trial table rather than the press release, which is why the numbers differ.

I understand the observation; what I do not understand is the mechanism behind it.

I have read the two review articles that come up first and both assert this without a citation to a primary source.

What is actually going on here, physically?

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SI
askedsample_id17k2722 Dec 2024
4Which trial, and which endpoint? The question is answerable once those are named. – second_lot 9 months ago
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5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
61

Accepted answer

Answering this needs to distinguish obstructive from central apnoea, because the mechanism and the expected response differ entirely.

SURMOUNT-OSA studied tirzepatide in adults with obesity and moderate-to-severe obstructive sleep apnoea, both with and without positive-airway-pressure therapy, and reported reductions in the apnoea–hypopnoea index of roughly twenty-five to thirty events per hour against a small placebo change.

Relative to absolute, worked

QuantityValueDerivation
Control-arm event rate8.0 %From the trial table, not the abstract
Hazard ratio0.80Reported
Treated event rate6.4 %8.0 × 0.80
Absolute risk reduction1.6 pp8.0 − 6.4
Number needed to treat631 ÷ 0.016
Relative risk reduction20 %1 − 0.80

The last two rows describe the same finding. Only one of them is used in headlines.

The correlation between weight change and AHI change in these trials is strong but not deterministic — craniofacial anatomy, muscle tone and sleep position all contribute, and none of them respond to weight loss.

Apnoea–hypopnoea index thresholds and the scoring rules for hypopnoea have changed more than once, so trials using different scoring criteria report systematically different numbers.

A two-band improvement is a real result and is not the same as resolution.

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TW
answered · acceptedtare_and_weigh12k1610 Jan 2025
The number needed to treat is the framing that finally made this concrete for me. – s_kalniete 9 months ago
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24

Start with the severity band. Mild, moderate and severe obstructive sleep apnoea are defined by AHI thresholds, and moving between bands is the clinically meaningful change.

Home sleep apnoea tests systematically underestimate AHI relative to laboratory polysomnography, so a before-and-after comparison should use the same modality or the difference is partly instrumental.

Specifically, daytime somnolence scores improve alongside AHI in these trials, but they also improve with placebo, which is why the instrumented endpoint is the one that carries the argument.

Adherence to positive airway pressure is the main confounder in any real-world comparison and is rarely measured well outside a trial.

Cite the polysomnography endpoint, not the sleepiness questionnaire.

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KL
answeredkirsi_lahtinen25k2730 Dec 2024
14

The relevant caution is that improvement is not resolution, and stopping established therapy on the strength of a symptom change is the error to avoid.

AHI bands are conventionally five to fifteen for mild, fifteen to thirty for moderate and above thirty for severe. A fall from forty-five to eighteen is a two-band move and still leaves moderate disease.

Positional dependence matters: an index averaged across the night conceals whether the events are concentrated supine, which changes what a partial improvement is worth.

The caveat is important here: an improved index is not a reason to discontinue prescribed therapy, and that decision needs a repeat sleep study and a clinician.

Get a baseline study before you need a comparison, because you cannot obtain one retrospectively.

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SL
answeredsian_llewellyn65k14727 Mar 2025
I would gently push back — that was a secondary endpoint, not the primary one. – kirsi_lahtinen 10 months ago
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2

The honest answer is that the effect is large in relative terms and that a large relative reduction from a severe baseline can still leave a treatable condition.

Central apnoeas are counted in the same index but arise from respiratory control rather than airway collapse, and there is no reason to expect a weight-mediated intervention to address them.

This is one of the few places where the instrumented evidence in this class is unusually clean. Use it.

edited 2 May 2025 by Dr_Ilse_Vandenberg — added the citation requested in comments

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DV
answeredDr_Ilse_Vandenberg113k2487 Apr 2025
2

Answer first: the endpoint in this area is the apnoea–hypopnoea index, events per hour of sleep, measured by polysomnography. Symptom reports are not that endpoint and do not substitute for it.

Oxygen desaturation index and time below ninety per cent saturation are secondary measures that often move further than AHI, because they weight the severe events rather than counting all events equally.

SURMOUNT-OSA is the dedicated trial in this indication and used polysomnography rather than symptom scales, which is why its result is quotable.

Compare like with like: same modality, same scoring rules, or the difference is partly an artefact.

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ZA
answeredzeynep_arslan16k2618 Apr 2025

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.