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What is the lowest maintenance dose with published maintenance data behind it?

Asked 8 Apr 2024Modified 2.1 years agoViewed 19k times
4

I have been on a stable schedule for eleven weeks, so this is not a first-week question.

I am asking for verification rather than opinion, ideally with something I can read myself.

It is possible the evidence exists and I am searching for the wrong term.

How well supported is this claim?

maintenance-dose
maintenance-dose

Staying put: the lowest dose that holds a result, the difference between the maximum studied dose and the maximum useful dose, and what the…

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clinical-trials
clinical-trials

Reading the primary literature properly: estimands, intention-to-treat versus per-protocol, confidence intervals, absolute versus relative…

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weight-regain
weight-regain

Regain after stopping or reducing: the trajectory reported in the withdrawal extensions, how much is fluid, and what the maintenance arms tell us…

10 questions
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CF
askedclaudia_ferrante22k278 Apr 2024
6Worth adding whether anything else glucose-lowering is on board. – orla_ferriter 2 months ago
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5 Answers

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68

Answer first: the maintenance dose is the lowest one that holds the result, and finding it is a downward search rather than an upward one.

A downward search proceeds one step at a time with at least eight weeks at each level, because a weekly agent takes four to five weeks to reach the new steady state and then needs time for the trend to be readable.

Weekly dosing accumulation, 7-day half-life

WeekFraction of steady stateTrough as × dose
150 %0.50
275 %0.75
388 %0.88
494 %0.94
597 %0.97
698 %0.98

This is why a four-week step interval is approximately, but not exactly, steady state.

More usefully, the maintenance dose is not necessarily the same a year later, since the counter-regulatory response attenuates slowly if at all.

The counter-regulatory hormonal response to weight loss persists for at least a year after the loss, which is the physiological reason maintenance needs something rather than nothing.

The lowest dose that holds the result is the answer, and it is individual.

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DL
answeredDr_Otto_Lindqvist72k5829 May 2024
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47

The short version: reach a working dose, hold it, and then consider whether less would hold it just as well.

Glycaemic maintenance has a faster and cleaner signal than weight maintenance, particularly with continuous monitoring, which makes the downward search more tractable when glycaemia is the endpoint.

The withdrawal trials — STEP-4 and SURMOUNT-4 — established what happens when treatment stops entirely. They did not evaluate dose reduction, so the evidence for a lower maintenance dose is inference rather than data.

Dose-response for weight in the trial programmes was real but flattening at the upper end, which is consistent with a lower maintenance requirement.

The caveat is that dose reduction is a clinical decision and this is a description of a search strategy rather than a recommendation.

Glycaemic maintenance gives a faster signal than weight maintenance.

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AB
answeredassay_blank45k3818 May 2024
8Any reason the interval is four weeks rather than five, given the half-life? – Dr_Priya_Raghunathan 5 months ago
This is the first explanation of the titration interval that made sense to me. – thermal_mass 7 months ago
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36

Start with what is being maintained — weight, glycaemia or both — because they have different dose-response curves.

If the result deteriorates on a lower dose, returning to the previous one is straightforward and does not require re-titration from the bottom provided the gap has been short.

Weight is a noisy signal. A rolling four-week average is the instrument; single weigh-ins after a dose reduction will show nothing interpretable.

STEP-4 and SURMOUNT-4 evaluated withdrawal rather than dose reduction, which is the limit of the direct evidence on this question.

A noisy weight signal makes premature conclusions easy, in both directions.

The withdrawal trials answer stopping, not reducing. Different questions.

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OB
answeredone_ml_bac18k2720 Jun 2024
30

The honest answer is that the maintenance dose is individual and that the search for it is slow because the feedback is slow.

Maintenance and loss are different endpoints. Loss requires a sustained energy deficit; maintenance requires only that the counter-regulatory drive is offset, and that may need less exposure.

Inference from the withdrawal trials to dose reduction is inference and should be labelled as such.

Going back up after a short gap does not require re-titrating from the bottom.

edited 17 Jun 2024 by Dr_Otto_Lindqvist — added the method parameters

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DL
answeredDr_Otto_Lindqvist72k589 Jun 2024
26

Mechanically, reducing the dose is not the same as stopping, and the withdrawal trials tell you about the second rather than the first.

Gastrointestinal tolerability generally improves on a reduced dose, which is a genuine quality-of-life argument for the search rather than only a cost one.

Gastrointestinal adverse event rates in the trials are dose-related, which supports the tolerability argument for the lowest effective dose.

Nothing here is medical advice, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Search downward, one step, eight weeks each, on a rolling average.

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TO
answeredt_oyelaran79k4815 Apr 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.