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What is the reported incidence of dizziness on oral semaglutide in PIONEER-1?

Asked 7 Jun 2024Modified 22 months agoViewed 19k times
4

What I have: dizziness · oral semaglutide · PIONEER-1.

This is presented as though it settles something, and I am not convinced it does.

I have two documents that appear to disagree, which is what prompted this.

Which parts of this are informative and which are decoration?

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askedswirl_dont_shake10k147 Jun 2024

4 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
43

Accepted answer

Take it from the PIONEER-1 adverse-event table by arm, and check the unit before you use it. An incidence can be the proportion of participants who reported the event at least once, or the count of events divided by exposure time, and the two differ by however many people had it repeatedly. Then subtract the placebo arm, because the untreated rate is not zero. And read the discontinuation column beside it: an event that made people leave the trial is under-counted at every later visit, so a low late-timepoint incidence can mean the event was severe rather than rare.

This is answerable from the published record, but only if you take the placebo arm seriously rather than reading the active arm alone.

Trial populations are selected. Exclusion criteria in this class routinely remove people with significant renal impairment, prior pancreatitis and unstable psychiatric illness, which is exactly the population the results are then quoted for.

Confidence intervals matter more than point estimates when two trials disagree. Two studies reporting fifteen and twenty per cent whose intervals overlap heavily have not disagreed about anything.

The cardiovascular outcome programme in this class runs to several large randomised trials — LEADER for liraglutide, SUSTAIN-6 and SELECT for semaglutide, REWIND for dulaglutide — and they are the reason the class is discussed as more than a weight intervention.

If a claim cannot be traced to a named trial with a named endpoint, treat it as a claim rather than as evidence.

edited 11 Sept 2024 by Dr_Otto_Lindqvist — updated for the 2026 guidance change

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DL
answered · acceptedDr_Otto_Lindqvist72k584 Sept 2024
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34

A trial establishes what happened to a defined group under a defined protocol. Extending it beyond that group is inference, and inference is allowed as long as it is labelled.

Open-label extensions are not the same evidence as the randomised phase. Once everyone knows what they are taking, the reported outcomes acquire a bias that no analysis fully removes.

Mechanically, non-inferiority and superiority designs are not interchangeable. A non-inferiority result says the new agent is not meaningfully worse against a pre-specified margin — it does not say it is as good, and it certainly does not say it is better.

The short version: check the endpoint, check the comparator, check who was excluded, then look at the number.

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DA
answeredDr_Rosalind_Achebe69k14715 Sept 2024
19

Answer first: read the primary endpoint, the comparator and the population before you read the effect size. Almost every argument on this site about a trial is really an argument about one of those three.

Duration decides what can be seen. A 68-week trial can measure weight and glycaemia; it cannot measure anything whose event rate is one per cent per year without enrolling tens of thousands.

In practice, a composite endpoint is only as informative as its least serious component. Where a cardiovascular composite combines death, infarction and stroke, ask which component moved, because they are not interchangeable outcomes.

Where a result is quoted from a conference abstract rather than a peer-reviewed publication, the numbers routinely move between the two. It is worth checking which one you are reading.

The caveat is that trial evidence is about licensed product administered under supervision. None of it transfers automatically to research-grade material of unverified content.

When two sources disagree, the answer is almost always in the methods section of the one you have not read.

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TM
answeredthabo_maseko28k3810 Jun 2024
Same experience here, different supplier. – Dr_Lena_Ostrowska 5 months ago
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16

Before comparing two trials, check whether they share an endpoint definition. Frequently they do not, and the numbers then are not comparable in any sense.

Intention-to-treat and per-protocol analyses answer different questions. ITT asks what happens if you offer the treatment; per-protocol asks what happens if it is taken as directed. The gap between the two is a measure of how tolerable the protocol was.

Registry entries at ClinicalTrials.gov carry the pre-specified primary endpoint with a timestamp, which is the cheapest available check on whether an endpoint was changed after the data were seen.

Be careful about generalising from a trial population to yourself. The exclusion criteria are usually the most informative page in the supplement.

Quote the interval alongside the estimate and half the disagreements on this site would not start.

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DV
answeredDr_Ilse_Vandenberg113k24827 Sept 2024
8Thank you for separating the surrogate from the outcome. That distinction gets lost constantly. – ben_akintola 5 months ago
The number needed to treat is the framing that finally made this concrete for me. – tess_amankwah 7 months ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.