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Does extending the interval work as well as reducing the dose?

Asked 18 Sept 2024Modified 19 months agoViewed 52k times
40

My records go back to the first dose with dates, so I can reconstruct the timeline exactly.

These are treated as interchangeable and I do not think they are.

If both are acceptable I would like to know that, so I can stop thinking about it.

Under what conditions does the answer flip?

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askedDr_Colm_Fitzhenry69k24718 Sept 2024
6Add what "working" would look like for you — the answer depends on the target. – nkem_obiora 9 months ago
7Voting to keep this open — it is more specific than it first looks. – gradient_slope 17 days ago
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3 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
133

Accepted answer

The part that matters: this is a question the trial programmes answered only partially, and it is worth saying which parts are evidenced.

The withdrawal trials — STEP-4 and SURMOUNT-4 — established what happens when treatment stops entirely. They did not evaluate dose reduction, so the evidence for a lower maintenance dose is inference rather than data.

It helps to be literal here: if the result deteriorates on a lower dose, returning to the previous one is straightforward and does not require re-titration from the bottom provided the gap has been short.

Dose-response for weight in the trial programmes was real but flattening at the upper end, which is consistent with a lower maintenance requirement.

The withdrawal trials answer stopping, not reducing. Different questions.

edited 5 Oct 2024 by v_ramaswamy — added a caveat about sampling

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VR
answered · acceptedv_ramaswamy68k5727 Sept 2024
Does the same interval logic apply to the daily agents, or is it shorter? – wren_calloway 4 months ago
2I would add a line about not escalating during an illness. Learned that one the hard way. – Dr_Wren_Halliday 5 months ago
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38

It helps to be literal here: any reduction takes four to five weeks to express itself, so the search proceeds in months.

Glycaemic maintenance has a faster and cleaner signal than weight maintenance, particularly with continuous monitoring, which makes the downward search more tractable when glycaemia is the endpoint.

Stated carefully, gastrointestinal tolerability generally improves on a reduced dose, which is a genuine quality-of-life argument for the search rather than only a cost one.

STEP-4 and SURMOUNT-4 evaluated withdrawal rather than dose reduction, which is the limit of the direct evidence on this question.

Search downward, one step, eight weeks each, on a rolling average.

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answeredmarcus_thorbjorn9.4k163 Jan 2025
-2

Answering this needs the reason for the current dose, since a dose chosen for loss and a dose chosen for maintenance are different decisions.

A downward search proceeds one step at a time with at least eight weeks at each level, because a weekly agent takes four to five weeks to reach the new steady state and then needs time for the trend to be readable.

Specifically, the maintenance dose is not necessarily the same a year later, since the counter-regulatory response attenuates slowly if at all.

Gastrointestinal adverse event rates in the trials are dose-related, which supports the tolerability argument for the lowest effective dose.

The lowest dose that holds the result is the answer, and it is individual.

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DV
answeredDr_Bram_Verhoeven84k2488 Oct 2024
Thank you — this is the answer I was looking for. – unit_math 8 months ago
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Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.