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Should I use a 31G needle to draw and something finer to administer?

Asked 17 Mar 2024Modified 2.2 years agoViewed 21k times
6

This is the third vial from the same lot, so I can compare against two known-good ones.

I have read the obvious sources and they disagree with each other, so I would rather ask people who have actually done this.

I have a working setup and a notebook, and I am prepared to be told that my setup is inadequate if that is the answer.

So: what is the actual procedure, and which steps matter as opposed to being ritual?

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askedorla_sheridan18k2717 Mar 2024

5 Answers

Accepted answer first, then by votes
90

Accepted answer

Yes, and 31G is the number that makes the case: the gauge scale runs backwards, so 31G is already fine and the drawing and administering jobs want opposite ends of it. Drawing wants bore — a wide needle empties a vial quickly and does not cavitate as the plunger pulls. Administering wants the opposite, because the hole it leaves is the hole the solution can leak back out of. The cost of doing both with a 31G needle is paid on the stopper: every puncture with a 31G point cuts an annulus of rubber, and the coring risk is worst on the wide end. The cost of swapping is one extra connection and whatever dead space that connection holds — which is a real loss, so measure it rather than assume it is nothing.

For a 4 mm pen-style needle the gauge options are narrow and the choice is nearly made for you.

Stopper coring — punching a disc of rubber into the solution — is a large-bore phenomenon. An 18G or 21G needle inserted straight and fast is the classic way to do it; inserting at a slight angle with the bevel up reduces the risk.

Reading a lyophilised cake

AppearanceInterpretationAction
Intact opaque puck, proud of baseCycle ran correctlyProceed
Slumped to one sideShipped before fully dry, or vibrationUsually usable; note it
Glassy translucent filmCollapse above glass transitionTest before use
Melt-back ring at stopperThermal excursion in transitTest before use
No visible cake at allVery low fill, or nothing thereWeigh it; query the supplier

Drawing a viscous or foamy solution through a fine needle takes long enough that people rush the plunger, which causes more foaming. Using a wider drawing needle is the fix.

The Hagen–Poiseuille relation gives flow proportional to the fourth power of radius, which is the quantitative basis for every gauge recommendation here.

Length affects comfort more than gauge does at these volumes.

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ED
answered · acceptede_dziedzic51k14715 May 2024
Thank you — the worked example is what makes this usable. – linnea_wahlberg 14 hours ago
I have seen exactly this failure mode twice and both times it was the diluent volume. – nine_point_nine 2 months ago
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78

Answering this needs to know the viscosity of what is being drawn, since a viscous solution through a fine needle is slow enough to encourage bad technique.

Very fine needles are more prone to bending and to blocking with any particulate, which is a practical argument for inspecting the solution before drawing.

Fixed-needle insulin syringes are supplied in 29G to 31G and cannot be swapped for drawing, which is the trade-off against their much lower dead space.

Coring risk as a function of needle gauge and insertion technique is documented in pharmacy compounding guidance.

The caveat is that no gauge choice makes a non-sterile preparation safe, and research-use compounds are not approved for human use.

Angle the bevel and insert gently to avoid coring the stopper.

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LS
answeredlukas_sedlacek16k1826 May 2024
Adding a vote because this deserves more of them. – petra_hovland 2 months ago
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38

Answer first: use the largest bore you tolerate for drawing and the smallest for injecting, because the two operations have opposite requirements.

For injecting, 29G to 31G is the usual range and the difference in perceived discomfort between them is small. Needle length matters more than gauge for comfort at these volumes.

Typical outer diameters: 21G is about 0.82 mm, 23G about 0.64 mm, 25G about 0.51 mm, 29G about 0.34 mm and 31G about 0.26 mm. The gauge number and the diameter move in opposite directions.

Butyl rubber closures are specified for resealing after piercing up to a stated gauge, which is the basis for the fine-gauge repeated-entry practice.

Big to draw, small to inject, never the same one twice.

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MI
answeredmicron2222k384 May 2024
8This should be linked from the help pages. – Dr_Bram_Verhoeven 3 months ago
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31

The honest answer is that injection gauge is a comfort decision and drawing gauge is a stopper-coring decision.

Flow through a needle scales with the fourth power of the internal radius under the Hagen–Poiseuille relation. Halving the radius reduces flow sixteen-fold at the same pressure, which is why a 31G needle draws so much more slowly than a 21G.

Nothing here is medical advice.

Gauge numbers run backwards. Higher number, thinner needle.

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LB
answeredlaminar_bench69k5723 Apr 2024
29

The short version: 21G to 23G to draw, 29G to 31G to inject, and never the same needle for both.

A 30G or 31G needle through a butyl stopper leaves a track that reseals, which is why fine-gauge repeated entry is tolerable and coarse-gauge repeated entry is not.

Needle gauge to outer diameter correspondence is standardised and published; the inverse relationship between gauge number and diameter is the reason for the counter-intuitive labelling.

Flow goes as the fourth power of radius. That is why the difference feels so large.

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MI
answeredmicron2222k3812 Apr 2024

Your answer

Ask PeptideStack is a static archive. Posting is closed, but the norms are worth stating: answer the question that was asked, show your working, cite the trial or the certificate, and say plainly where the evidence runs out.

Not medical advice. Research-use-only compounds are not approved for human use.